WIP advanced

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Kangal, Nov 9, 2012.

  1. Kangal

    Kangal Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to say this: I don't think it's a good idea to get the WIP advanced section free for everyone to post. In my opinion, the moderators should choose the works who deserve to stay there, like it were some time ago. This way soon that section will be filled up of works which aren't advanced and professional at all . Lot of people will think that their works deserve to stay there, so they'll post a WIP just there, and it will generate confusion with the other WIP section, the one for beginners where i am and where i'll post every present and future work, just because i can't be judge of myself.

    I'm pretty sure the moderators already know what i mean, but they trust people, in other words they honestly believe the others are confident and trustable and frank, but, like exprerience and reality teached me, i think by now ''to trust the others is good, but to do not trust the others is even better...'' like an old italian motto says :D

    This is my thought only, please take it like a free opinion and nothing more ;)
     
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  2. exidge

    exidge Administrator

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    Hi, thank you for your opinion. It's true, at the moment everyone is allowed to start a thread in the advanced wip forum. Usually everyone start in the WIP Forum and then, after a while get moved to the advanced forum. Sometimes it can happen that freshly registred people don't have an overview of the website and just post where they think it's right. SMC of course tries to keep it clean as possible and we also move threads where they belong to. So you might think why there are threads which shouldn't be there. Long time ago this forum was called High-End. We merged all the threads into one forum where it's not so strict what is advanced and what high-end and didn't move back threads which don't belong in there. Also it was not clear in the beginning how strict we should be. We don't have an official guide, what says what is advanced or professional (by time we will have that). But we could define some rules here if you guys want that.

    My suggestion is following:
    - Accurate and clean model
    - Good meshflow and smooth result
    - Good presentation skills (doesn't need amazing rendering results )
    - interesting thread to follow and also learn ( maybe a very small tutorial )


    By the way, the WIP Forum itself is seen by more people than the advanced forum. So it's recommendet to everyone to start there and always use the attachment system, because if there is no thumbnail, you lose a lot of attention or interest by the others.

    Cheers,
    exidge
     
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  3. Kangal

    Kangal Well-Known Member

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    Hi Exidge, and the others who has followed this.
    Thank u for the explanation, it has been clear and i've understood the meaning of your choice to get it opened to everyone. Anyway, speaking about myself, i'll keep on posting my works in the WIP Stills section, then, if someday they'll be good enough, someone will move them to the advanced one :)
     
  4. Falango

    Falango Active Member

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    I wasn't aware that it was open to everyone to start new topics now. I think that topics should be started in the other WIP forums, and a the team of moderators can vote on whether it should be moved to the advanced forum. To me, that forum is reserved for the most prestigious work we see here, so it should hold some value to see your work there. If anyone can start a thread there, that is lost.
     
  5. rickyss

    rickyss Member

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    maybe the moderators have a lot on their minds and there is a risk that all work that ends in the advanced forum could be one moderators personal way of seeing things, so therefore maybe other users should be able to nominate or vote for which threads to get there?
     
  6. exidge

    exidge Administrator

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    @ Falango: I think we can lock it so no new threads can be created there. Will be less work for moderators aswell.

    @ Hey Rickyss :) That's why there should be a guide and rules we can define together as I suggested above. If you have more ideas please write it down here. A public vote doesn't get more accurate results about quality of a WIP Thread because we have a lot of hobbyists who just enojoy modelling what is allright and see things different than professionals (which we also have). That's why we need rules and guides so everything is clear and there is a level to reach for everyone, a standard for an Advanced WIP.

    Let's sum up:

    - There should be rules and guides how an Advanced WIP should be ( clear examples and directions)
    - Everything starts in the WIP 3D Stills Forum

    My suggestion again for rules is:

    - Accurate and clean model
    - Good meshflow and smooth result
    - Good presentation skills (doesn't need amazing rendering results)
    - Interesting thread to follow and also learn ( maybe a very small tutorial )
    - There will be a thread in the advaced forum explaining the "how to get there"
    - Anything else we can add or leave out?


    Please everyone who is interested in this make suggestions and write it down here.

    Cheers,
    exidge
     
  7. Kangal

    Kangal Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Exidge's rules, and with Rickyss when he talks about votes. Just, i'd transform ''votes'' to ''likes''. I mean, if a work reaches some number of likes, it could be automatically moved to the advanced section. This way it's like people themselves would move it to the advanved section. I'd suggest 40 likes to be moved there :) Plus, i'd suggest that a ''like'' from moderators has double value (1 likes is 2 likes if given by them)
     
  8. EquiNOX

    EquiNOX Active Member

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    I agree with Kangal, About the number of likes get the chance for user promote onto next level.

    Another proposal... Categorize WIP threads on Cars ONLY, and Other than cars such as Plane, Helicopters, Characters, and etc? This would have make easy to navigation for users don't you think?
     
  9. exidge

    exidge Administrator

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    Kangal: Sounds actually not bad. So all the rules plus 40 likes?
    EquiNox: It's a good idea, I just think that this forum will stay empty for a long time. Look at the "Miscellaneous" Forum, nothing is happening there.

    Cheers,
    exidge
     
  10. PBenjamim

    PBenjamim Active Member

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    In addition advanced works section with thumbnails on the frontpage would be cool. Would give them more attention, and maybe it would make the WIPs having a certain competitive side to it, people trying harder and improving on themselves to try to appear on the frontpage. Of course this cannot be an easy task, and i completely agree with the points referred above, except for the cars only forum part. In my opinion everything should be on the same place, even if it's just an engine.
     
  11. Ralph123

    Ralph123 Active Member

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    I like the front page idea... especially in view of the fact there's been a discussion about redesigning the frontpage. Really nice idea. ;)

    That would indeed help organizing the content. However, I don't think that's necessary because the amount of planes/helicopters etc. is VERY limited at the moment.
     
  12. Kangal

    Kangal Well-Known Member

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    Yes, as i've said in my third post (post number 7), i think your rules and the 40 likes thing could be the right way to modify the current WIP advanced status. I also think this could be enough at the moment, and every other modifications should be added eventually in a second time, just do not complicate more the things.
     
  13. EquiNOX

    EquiNOX Active Member

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    Miscellaneous sound too general, maybe confused for first time navigation. I knew one of skilled Aircraft modeler friend who tells me he didn't feel it was good place to share or show his work at SMCars just because the way he navigate make him feel that it was place for Car modelers only.

    I personally thought "Miscellaneous" was referring to vehicle related such as car parts, rims, tire and etc. Not other than vehicles.

    here some suggestion on group and category that could help better navigation for users.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    //Work in Progress
    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    Automobile:
    WIP Critique: 3d Stills
    WIP Critique: 3d Advanced​

    Game:
    WIP Critique: Video Game & Real-Time
    WIP Critique: Advanced Video Game & Real-Time​

    Miscellaneous:
    Critique: Miscellaneous
    WIP Critique: Advanced Miscellaneous​


    -OR-

    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    //Vehicles Work in Progress
    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    Automobile 3D:
    WIP Critique: 3d Stills
    WIP Critique: 3d Advanced​

    Automobile 2D:
    WIP Critique: 2d Stills
    WIP Critique: 2d Advanced​

    Games:
    WIP Critique: Video Game & Real-Time
    WIP Critique: Advanced Video Game & Real-Time​

    Military/Commercial/Recreational Aircraft:
    WIP Critique: Aircraft
    WIP Critique: Advanced Aircraft​

    Miscellaneous Vehicles:
    WIP Critique: Miscellaneous Vehicles
    WIP Critique: Advanced Miscellaneous Vehicles​

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    //Miscellaneous
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    WIP 3d:
    WIP Scene:
    WIP Renders:​


    Or something like that....

    Not necessary true, you'd be surprise how many modeler out there done modeling/render on Aircraft or various vehicles would even share work everywhere if the thread is open for them.... You see, sometimes SMCars can become bored or dead because everybody is doing exactly same thing over and over, on same topic... cars, cars and cars -- Sometimes, bringing more excitement if anyone share variety works or techniques so others can learn from it, it could or may improve their workflow on car modeling. :)
     
  14. rickyss

    rickyss Member

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    i agree with Equinox, i think smCars should try and broaden the view and encourage more other types of models also, and not only vehicles. im sure there are many here who work on a lot of different things but only post when they have a car to show
     
  15. Kangal

    Kangal Well-Known Member

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    Just the last thing about the ''40 likes to be moved on the advanced section''. Let's do this way: Let's increase that to 50 likes ,this way some evily mind won't think this is for me since i've 36 in my P1 :D and let's block the chance to give ''likes'' to our own WIPs.
    It will avoid creepy and childish purposes to get the advanced section ;)
    Anyway, following this concept, the SLS by P.Benjamim should be already there and the ones by Beacon1 and Philmartin will be there soon. And they surely deserve it :)
     
  16. Oscar J

    Oscar J Well-Known Member

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    Not sure about that like thing... Threads that goes on for a very long time will almost automatically jump to the advanced section, since you recieve a few like for each post you do. This means that works that aren't that great will be able to land in the advanced section, only because of the sheer amount of updates or renders posted, while a fantastic WIP with only a few updates won't land over 50 likes.

    I think it's good as it is right now, but that's my opinion.
     
  17. Kangal

    Kangal Well-Known Member

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    Look, what u say is not wrong, and it's another way to consider the question. What i care to say thou is that the meaning of a WIP should be to show it since the beginning, where u post just some simple surfaces or some spline cages, so that everybody can look at the further developments and eventually to help . If u post even a great top notch WIP but practically done, it's not exactly a WIP so if u don't reach some number of likes u should already know that u willn't be in the advanced section. Just my thought :)
     
  18. Oscar J

    Oscar J Well-Known Member

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    Erik_S with his AM has only got 35 likes, and his Koenigsegg Agera's only got 27 likes. Surely those WIPs are about as advanced as it gets? He post big updates rather than many, yet you can follow and learn from his progress.

    Duron with his BMW M6 has got 111 likes, not necessarily because he's a better modeller, but because he post a lot of smaller updates and renders.

    Doesn't Erik's work belong in the advanced section, just because he's not updating as often? I think that both are equally advanced and equally interesting to follow.
     
  19. Kangal

    Kangal Well-Known Member

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    Yep, but they'll both reach 50 likes anyway, don't u forget that those cars aren't finished at all, and he has to do the renders still.
     
  20. exidge

    exidge Administrator

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    I agree what Oscars says.
    Your hypothesis Kangal, that top notch WIPs are always almost finished what is not true. In this situation your argument would be right if we agree on what you said. But let's imagine this situation, the thread has 100+ likes, but the quality of the presentation and the model is average. This should be advanced then?

    Cheers,
    exidge
     

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